beat forecast, generic competition for once selling drugs, 2014 forecast received the thumbs-up from investors because of strong drug pipelines as a result of both stocks moving higher today. eli lilly by 4%, pfizer more than 2. >> i was looking around to grab a trader, ty. the markets push higher. we're up 70 points on the dow jones industrial as we march towards the 14,000 mark. the s&p is up about seven points and the nasdaq is the laggard of the day, down 1 2/3. we always talk about what groups are contributing to the move in the upside to the dow jones industrial or downside depending on the day. we want to highlight s&p financials and energy complex today because we do have significant movers in the s&p financials, which are really holding their own today. today we're up a third of a percent on s&p financials.

last trade 235. energy complex overall has been very strong. we're up 1 1/3% at 578.92. let me just ask, do you think we're going to hit 14,000 today? what do you think? >> yes. >> he says yes. >> one in the yes column. >> we'll take it. i don't know. >> i believe amazon is on the list and tomorrow boeing as lebeau reported early. that will do it for "power lunch." >> "street signs" begins right now. and welcome to "street signs" where we are just a horse hair away from 14,000 on the dow. but watch out for tech. some big names taking big drops. today we'll find out why. ford flattens earnings forecast. sales are soaring. is there still a reason to worry. plus whether d.c. has given up

trying to grow the american economy. we will meet a man, mandy, who dares to upgrade one of the most beaten down companies in the land. >> i believe not so unhappy about it either. the dow, zeroing in on that 14,000 level. that is the level to watch. about 47 points away. we have not traded there since october 17th, 2007. now we're just 1.5% away from hitting that mark. really just a hop, skip, and a jump. s&p meantime has been the real sleeper here, guys, kind of creeping up on us 12 straight sessions, including today, single digit moves. the longest in two years. the nasdaq meantime is having a bit more of a struggle today. the number of techs wrecked. we'll bring you more on that in a second. meantime, down to bob pisani on the floor of nyse. is 14,000 a psychological marker or is there anything more to this. bob? >> yes, it's a psychological marker. when you've got the public talking about the stock market again, thank heavens, for the

first time in years, psychological marks become important. they can produce interest in buying. we're close. not just 14,000 but we're close to the historic highs on the dow. here is your five-year high. essentially just over 14,000 is where the historic highs was, 4 14,198. i don't want to get too cranky. advance, decline line, topping market action occurs when you get very marrow leadership, 4-3 advance decline. not great. you want big vans and small declines. that's getting smaller. i think that's a little bit worrisome. finally if you look at overall market, the dow is near 14, i'm happy about that, believe me, as the stocks guy. look at the overall rest of the market. this isn't doing too much, narrow group of stocks, big cap to the upside. i want to note something. nyse had an outage in trades and

quotes and very range of stocks and quotes, amz was out for half an hour and has been since resolved. amanda, back to you. >> good to know, bob pisani, thanks for bringing the information to us. in the meantime we're calling tech wreck tuesday despite the overall market being up. it has been a tough day for four tech stocks. that's one reason as we saw a moment ago that the nasdaq is one down. first up, vmw, what is going on. >> not pleasing wall street, below consensus. orders falling from federal government customers at least five analyst down grades on vmw, also cut about 900 jobs. vm ware systems, too. >> vmc also tanking. >> cutting their forecast as well. they missed out on two big contract renewals. with bmc, still up 25% over the past year but a terrible day.

>> seagate as well. >> sales of disks drives slow, at least they are making them. seeing the trend continue. western digital down in sympathy. >> and what's this up to? >> click and clack, first quarter profit fell 50%, lower revenue and higher cost, mandy, that's a bad combination. >> that's a bad combination. >> outlook, well below wall street estimates. keep in mind stocks rose, even though guidance is weak. today, not so much. >> not so much. >> so, those four companies, are they just having four specific company issues, or is there a larger theme here to be worried about in tech? let us bring in sherry scrivener, senior analyst for deutsch banks as well as senior research analyst at craig capital as well as jon fortt in for the west coast ostensibly for something else we'll get to in a couple minutes here.

sherry, first, four names. not apple, microsoft but big in their spaces. is this a macrotech theme we need to be worried about? >> i don't think so. i think what you've seen is tech has rallied over the past week on positive announcements from some of the bigger names. now we're seeing a bit more disappointment on realism, which is the falk things are not great yet but probably will improve in the second half. things not great. hopefully they will get better. >> do you think this is a story by story problem or is this a common thread and theme through these particular tech names and others? >> i think some of the themes we have heard is that technology spending is still weak. businesses are not spending on servers and storage so investments in i.t. have generally been soft. pc side with seagate, pc spending week in the december quarter. to some extent earnings is backward looking. guidance was a bit

disappointing. again, with i.t. investment improving in the second half of the year, businesses do have to invest in i.t., we think you'll see an improvement. >> what's your view on that. >> good afternoon, thanks for having me. all tech is not the same. if you look at what i covered, the big thing, the shift to the public cloud, infrastructure service customers as well as service providers. what's important to understand over there is that enterprise vendors sell enterprise do not sell into the cloud as much as they would like to. the cloud, in general, the companies in the cloud essentially use commodities, hardware and open source software for the most part. i think that is a trend -- >> rajesh, listen. we tend to hammer people who are wrong but we're going to give you a victory lap on your call on vmw. obviously stock is getting

walloped. is it now a good time to buy vmw or is it still not low enough for you? >> i think vmw is going to go through a challenging year in 2013. >> don't buy it now? >> i don't think so. >> jon, what's your take on all of this? this an area you obviously follow very, very closely. can't just say tech as a sector because there are so many subsectors in there with own fundamental stories. >> mandy, i see a couple of possible threads running through this. one of the things leading up to ibm earnings and others people are saying was, okay, if we see enterprise sales slowing down for ibm, oracle in a significant way, that could be good for vm ware. people have to make due with what they had. vm had a pretty good quarter, a couple of other good quarters in the enterprise. that doesn't play as well to vm and bmc. of course on seagate's hand, just as we've seen with so many

companies connected to the pc business, if people aren't buying as many pcs, aren't as many hard disks going into those, instead the data center in the cloud. more efficient in the cloud. they don't need to buy as many disks. that's hard. >> of course we've got sherri with a hold on seagate. what would need to happen, sherri, for you to make it a buy? >> the stocks run up about 20%. my view is that seagate is a good company. they are doing a good job. i prefer western digital who i have a buy on. i think western digital has a number of tail winds this year in terms of reducing their cost, rolling out new aerial density products. >> sherri, sorry to interrupt. what's the difference between seagate and western digital really? >> well, the difference to me is that seagate had strong performance last year and they benefited from rolling out new aerial density products. they benefited from their position after the thailand floods. they saw less of a benefit from those things. their benefits come this year as

they roll out aerial products and benefit in the cloud. >> sherri, rajesh, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> jon, we want to get to your headlines as well. there were headlines that crossed a moment ago in the last hour. the department of homeland, i believe, department of homeland security with a big hacker alert. how serious should we be taking this. >> pretty serious, universal plug and play. in a lot of run-of-the-mill home devices, routerings from bell kin, linkses. potentially, these devices answer the door when strangers knock. somebody can be spying on your web cam, home web cam when you haven't authorized that. you're not sure it's on. that's extremely dangerous. most people don't know what universal plug and play is. >> it's stuff you buy at a best buy that you just literally plug in and it works. >> supposed to be a user friendly thing. >> we're talking hardware.

>> hardware. >> we always think of the virus, hackers, attacks come in on the software side, now hardware at risk according to dhs. >> there's always software behind it in how it makes the hardware work. this is supposed to be easy to plug in and just work so you wouldn't have to configure it manually. well, the downside is if you're not locking your door manually -- >> what does this mean for the people at home watching this and thinking, okay, what do i do? >> call the company. the company, the manufacturer. in some cases they don't have a total fix laid out. try to figure out how to disable plug and play. that is step one. once you do that you're mostly in the clear for this type of vulnerability. >> i'm sure mom and pop are like, i've got to disconfigure this, can't watch matlock. >> that was her impression. >> that might be my parents but

not everybody else's. >> it's a serious problem and something we'll all be vulnerable to. >> get rid of internet, tv, read a book by candlelight and go whaling on the weekends. >> what's interesting, you don't end up with the same type of vulnerability but different vulnerability in the mobile system. it doesn't connect to the home router to get its basic internet connection, from the carrier. it's different. there are vulnerabilities but different. this is pc and pc accessory problem. >> you can bet your bottom dollar hackers are one step ahead of us. >> just a note to hackers, don't hack into my web cam. it's not anything you want to see. i'm just throwing it out there. >> sitting at home painting fingernails. >> mandy doesn't have a web cam. >> i do have a web cam. >> that was your opportunity. >> tomorrow on "street signs," we'll be live for an exclusive

interview with rim ceo thorsten heins. >> see what the big man can bring. he's a big boy, makes me look small. all right. we are 43 points away from dow 14,000. coming up, though, we're going to talk about ford. the stock down even though earnings are way up. we've got an analyst that says you've got to buy, buy, buy. and we're going to show you some of the fastest cars in the world. >> later on, passive aggressive appraisers. why have home appraisals become a problem. maybe you've had this experience yourself. even the wealthy have been. it's very democratized. more coming up.

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made, gold wing sl. ford is back, baby. in america at least. still one big roadblock for the second biggest automaker in the land. let's find out what that is. phil lebeau with us. i want to ask a basic question. when i heard you give the numbers on ford, blowout, $3 billion. >> absolutely. >> what's going on with the stock? >> the problem is fourth quarter, great, 2013, that's the focus. let's give the good news, if you will. when you look at the fourth quarter, much better than expected. they beat the street by $0.06, revenue better than expected. here is the issue, mounting in europe, wider than expected in 2013. going back to '11, lost money, $1.75 in 2012. this year they have increased it, expected to lose $2 billion. the problem, the greater expected losses in europe is basically driven by weaker sales for the entire auto industry and a stronger euro. you put that together and that's

where you get the expected $2 billion loss. another concern that's caught a little attention on wall street is this chart right here. see the yen has been weakening of the concern is you have the japanese automakers finally getting a little wind beneath their wings in terms of pricing in the u.s. we ask cfo bob shanks if that's a concern. here is what he had to say. >> what's happening is some people are pricing. some given back in incentives but some sticking. the pricing environment in the u.s. seems to be healthy and that's our expectations going through 2013. >> as you take a look at shares of ford, keep this in mind. it's a stock while down 5% this year, up 6.5% last year. a the lo are saying this the evaluation play for now. until definite that they will move higher you might be getting ahead of yourself. you have a guest later that

might say buy now but that's the evaluation. >> over at stern senior analyst mike ward from that firm joins us now. he's got a buy on the stock. mike, what is the single or most one or two powerful arguments you've got for our audience about why they need to spend their hard earned money on ford stock. >> thanks for having me. first off in europe, mentioned the company did expect a loss of $2 billion in 2013. about half of that or close to a billion dollars, one-time unusual charges that won't occur again in 2014. ford is being very proactive in its restructuring in europe. that's good news. >> sorry, go ahead. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. the second thing i would point to as it relates to ford is the strength in north america. as played with bob shanks, positive pricing in north america along with lower costs. that's the first time i've seen that in the 30 years i followed the group. that's good news. record profitability from north american operations which far outweigh anything happening in

europe. >> obviously certainly seems to be the home market carrying them right now, mike. it's not just europe but other areas of the world ford has been struggling in, south america. i believe asia's revenues are growing. to what extent will the rest of the world need to pull up to the level of the home market in north america for this company to keep on powering forward. >> they never will. south america, asia pacific, european operations are much smaller than operations in north america. north america is the primary driver of the company. in south america they were profitable in 2012 despite a very choppy environment. some of that were trade related between mexico and south american markets. they will be resolved in 2013. i think me when i look at the primary driver for ford, it's cash. cash leads earnings. when you look at ford, one of the things they guide positively is cash from operations. they are pressing on the pedal, getting more aggressive, taking the offensive, pulling forward

cap spending in 2013. they are going after weak competitors in europe and asia and north america quite frankly. the other thing is, they are derisking their pension. on top of that they are going to return cash to shareholders. that to me with this weakness, a good yield on the stock, a good buying opportunity particularly as lou out to 2013-2014. >> indeed i see it's your top pick. thanks for joining us. stern a.g. mike ward and thanks to phil lebeau. >> this is not something you see every day. a lamborghini taking a test-drive on an airport runway. miami airport shut down for one of the newest and fastest lambo yet. it hit 205. the base model that doesn't include wheels, that's not true, starts at a cool $397,000. >> maybe just down to three wheels, an extra $10,000 for

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>> grow up the economy, as president obama pushes for immigration reform today, stunning new evidence about an immigrant brain drain. a coffman foundation study reveals high-tech internet startups has stalled. immigrant startup businesses generated $63 billion in sales over the past seven years and employed more than half a million people. unless the immigration issue is resolved soon, he says the economy could really take a hit. >> all right. good segue. time for part two of our grow up series this week. today here is the discussion point. look at this. this is a super long-term chart of u.s. gdp going all the way

back pre1940. you can see, it's all over the place, right? recessions, boom time, whatever. two things are clear. the average since 1940 is for .2% gdp growth. we are currently way under that and have been for a while and going down. so it begs the question, why are the democrats seemingly only focused on tax hikes and the gop seemingly only talking about spending cuts. turns out steve liesman is about to report wall street may be stuck on some of these things, too. steve. >> brian, i think what i'm going to tell you right now is that all of wall street thinks you are wrong. they are freaked out by the deficit and they want it resolved. they want it resolved now. our cnbc fed survey, we asked the 52 respondents what they thought about the issue of the deficit. i want to show you this in three parts now, three-part harmony. should you solve the deficit now, later, or not at all. now overwhelming at 80%. should you solve the deficit with spending cuts.

should spending cuts happen now, 59% later, only 2% say not at all. how about revenue increases? 16% say now, 30% say later. 53% say not at all. you can see a little more disagreement here but pretty good agreement on the overall concept. the deficit needs to be solved now. you need spending cuts now and don't do revenue. that's the way wall street wants this issue solved. they do see it as very, very important. want to show you the growth outlook and an important change when it comes to growth outlook. here is our survey, the last several findings of our survey for 2013 growth. 2.74, coming down, coming down. 1.91, down for seven straight times, now back up for the first time. 2.08. take a look what 2014 is. 2.56%. again, underneath that 3.2 number, potential growth has come down a little bit.

they think 2.5, 2.25. bottom line, you need to go above that number to bring down the unemployment rate. i was interested as well, guys. there was no number in there actually 3.2%. >> i'm actually interested whether or not we've become complacent and happy with less. to the original point, will we ever get back to 4% plus growth and average monthly payroll increase of $300,000 plus or are those days so far gone in our lifetime? >> inside that question, the answer is the greatest political and social cataclysm of our lifetimes, getting america or thinking that america should learn to live on less growth. >> are you happy with less? >> it's exactly what you ask. right now, interesting analysis of both parties, they both agree, from former analyst in chicago. both parties agree on one thing that growth in america should be

above 3%. they disagree on how to get there but they both agree. it is a political consensus we should grow at 3, can go above 3, should go above 3. the government should have policies to get to 3 and above. >> disagreeing on how to get there or run out of ideas how to get there. >> disagree. republicans want to be more through tax cuts. democrats want to do more through spending and social programs to raise the level of those in poverty, raise education level. different concepts of how to get there. according to chief economist, both united around the wrong idea. his argument, as well as make other arguments right now, not consensus, is the united states should learn to live with a lower growth rate. >> that means lower wages. means reduced quality of life for milling class, 7.8% unemployment for life. >> a slow incremental change. >> the answer to the segment is, yes, we have given up. >> i'm not sure that's true.

>> that makes me sad. >> i do think before you reach for a goal, it is worth asking your self two things. is that goal attainable and what you have to spend in order to get there. there is thinking that the fed, for example, has kept on the accelerator to try to push the economy to a speed incapable of attaining. you guys are the first to begin this conversation. we have to have it political, nationally. >> we're doing it all week. first you say wall street disagrees with me. i'm not on either side. i think both parties are idiotic, dogmatic nature. democrats, we have to raise taxes, gop, we have to quit spending. somewhere in the middle is a growth plan some smart has out there and i want to hear it. that person, send it to her or me. >> you began this whole segment with the report on immigration. if we want to get to a higher

growth rate, i believe it will be substantially because of our immigrant population and the investment we make in human capital in america. >> on that note, we have to leave it there. steve, thank you very much for joining us. >> coming up. the shocking statement in europe that is putting one president to shame. >> good news for you, brian. we have an upgrade for your stock pick. it is best buy. talking bought analyst. he says buy maybe best buy. coming up. [ engine revving ]

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we certainly love bold calls here on "street signs." if this isn't bold, i don't know what is. an upgrade on best buy. yeah, you heard us right. let us bring in the brave soul making the call, from capital markets. anthony, you and i have interviewed many times in the pass. so i know you are a sane man. make the case for the best buy. >> a man after your own heart perhaps? >> sure. basically there's three main parts to our new investment thesis on best buy. first off, is that righting to build a very impressive senior

management team. lee, a guy not very well-known on wall street but successfully led the turnaround of avendes video business, evs in france, customer experience from restaurant industry, travel agent industry as well as hospitality industry. someone who is well-known is sharon mccull om, formally cfo of sonoma, very well regarded on the street. they has a stellar track record. most importantly she successfully tackled issues best buy currently has. too many retail stores need to build out ecommerce distribution as well as cut cost. we think amazon and apple problems will abate over time and the fact there's so much pessimism surrounding the stock right now, i think that's a contraindicator, a great reason to get involved with the stocks. >> when you talk about the amazon issue, the showroom, i've been to best buy standing on the

floor, seen someone check out the products, try out the vacuum cleaner, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera and go buy on amazon on their mobile phone. >> that is exactly the issue i'm referring to. there's a couple of different ways best buy is going to address this issue or things are going to get better for best buy. one, we're starting to see the manufacturer's themselves say, hey, amazon you can't sell our price for whatever you want to, because at the end of the day that hurts us and hurts our profitabili profitability. we think you'll see a more level playing field from a pricing perspective. the other thing, we agree amazon will increasingly have to collect sales tax. they currently don't do that in most u.s. states. they recently started in california, texas and pennsylvania. sales increased the second that happened. >> that's a big point that maybe enough people aren't making a big enough deal. i'm glad you brought it up. without sales tax, amazon will

have a 5, 6% pricing advantage. >> that's 100% correct. in these tough economic times you alluded to earlier, if i can save between 5 and 10% buying it online as opposed to buying in a brick or mortar store or best buy.com because best buy.com does collect sales tax, i'm going to do it. it's a no-brainer. >> do you think they will cut down to some degree brick and mortar stores. you talk about potential cost-cutting initiatives, does that also mean scaling back their stores? >> i think we will see this happen. but that's going to be more over time. the nice thing about best buy's nearly 50% of their u.s. store leases are up for renewal over the next four years. i think we will see them gradually scale down their store, also the stores that keep opening. they will likely make those stores smaller as well. >> anthony, you made the case rationally. we appreciate it. >> price tag of $21 and from a hold to a buy.

you wouldn't lose after all for the stock pick. >> i'm done. christmas turkey. >> i'm cooked, too, facebook. the closing price on the first day of trade for facebook not the price of $38. pretty close to $38. >> always a buyout. remember, the last two stocks left. we had to pick the names. there you go, disclaimer side. sacre, a huge embarrassment for the french president. >> the warm and sunny spot trying to woo wall street. sounds nice. maybe they can woo me as well. here is the pitch, no state taxes. better than sunshine.

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coming up on the "closing bell," coming up two stocks, apple down, research in motion is hot. which is the better stock to buy right now. we, of course, have that trade. plus, did amazon have a happy holiday? instant analysis of the online retailer's earnings. the dow inching closer to an all-time high. mark far ber is not impressed. find out why he's calling for a 20% selloff this year. they don't call him dr. doom for nothing. first "street signs." >> thanks very much, scotty, we're looking forward to it. we have breaking news here. what you're looking at is the

president live in las vegas. he's going to be laying out his immigration reform plan. here on "street signs" we were talking about immigration, about 11 million illegal immigrants in the country. talking about growth if we made them legal. talk about what's happening there. gets to john howard in d.c. what exactly are we going to expect in terms of his immigration reform program? >> what we expect, mandy, is the president is going to embrace the bipartisan effort that's going on in the senate, which was just unveiled yesterday. a set of principles, not a piece of legislation. this is something very important to the business community as well as to the hispanic community because so many of those 11 million are people that have come in to provide their labor. the industries like the hotel and restaurant industry, agriculture, very dependent on immigrants. normalizing that, having a system employers can count on as well as the people who are here

illegally is something critical. the comprehensive approach they are talking about is one that takes people while here while strengthening border enforcement, gives them the right to get in line for a permanent green card but gives them what they call probationary status ahead of time. there's lots of negotiation, lots of pitfalls between left and right as we move through the legislative process, but a very promising beginning of a time we haven't seen since 2006 where there was a bipartisan effort to do this that ultimately collapsed. >> john, thank you very much. appreciate it. we are calling this story sacre broke. a huge faux pas in france after he made a shocking statement. he said, quote, the country is total totally bankrupt of that's a huge embarrassment for the president under fire for tax and spend policies, which has a lot of big names, including

president nicolas sarkozy, g gerard depardue said we were bankrupt. >> french are more outspoken about these things. very french. >> loosey goosey. >> the opposite. new yorkers are saw awe -- au revoir. the president of the board of palm beach county. kelly, is it safe to say they are coming to you. you're not hawking your wares and saying come to us, it is happening by itself. >> that is absolutely correct. if you look at the state of

florida, palm beach county, we pay no personal taxes on income. fund managers paying $70,000 in taxes, take that over 10 years, a tremendous savings. many fund managers have second homes here. you are absolutely correct in that we are simply dealing what is naturally falling on our lap. >> so is this a short-term trend, kelly? palm beach, beautiful place, doesn't exactly have infrastructure to manage thousands of new people. >> i think that's a perception. this is not short-term. this is longer term outlook that we have in recruiting hedge funds to this area. as i mentioned, they have second homes already here. we have infrastructure, workforce, university that has a trading center. we have a governor serving on the front lines helping us bring these hedge funds into this area. so this is not, by no means, a short-term outlook on economic

development and jobs. they are coming to us. they are calling us in record numbers. they are very interested in the workforce. they are very interested in also moving their families to this area. we are well equipped to answer questions of these managers coming into palm beach county. >> apart from wall street like hedge funders, small businesses, large businesses also moving to your area, kelly? >> yes. palm beach county has a very sophisticated business environment. in addition to professional and financial services, we have two of the world's largest research and development institutes. 630 aviation aerospace companies, communications and i.t. industry that is grog in the south end of our country. while it's a beautiful place to visit and tourism is really high, there's been a transformation in the last few years to one more based on technology and innovation with clusters of industry that now call palm beach county their home. not only are we seeing hedge funds come to the area but a

wide array of corporate headquarters looking for a corporate lifestyle. we have no snow. we have no subways here in florida. it is a very attractive environment to ceos. >> you're clearly doing something right. kelly, thank you for sharing your story with us. >> thank you very much. coming up, appraisal outrage. if you have recently tried to refi your home, i think you know what we're talking about. does the whole appraisal process need its own appraisal? we'll debate that. >> we are keeping collective cnbc eyeballs on dow, 14,000. we're not there yet. about 48 points away. up, led by pfizer, at&t. could we hit 14,000 for the day? >> how many eyeballs is that? >> a lot of eyeballs, like watching tv at sears. we're back after this. [ cows moo ] [ sizzling ] more rain... [ thunder rumbles ] ♪ [ male announcer ] when the world moves... futures move first.

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well, we have a bit of a rally on our hands here. we're only up by half a percent. look at the numbers, guys. closing in on 14,000. this is, of course, a level we haven't seen since october 17th, 2007, we're 66 points away from cracking that mark again. what's that, about 1.5% if i do the general math. my math is generally not good.

>> your math is like major colonel math, not general math. >> that's why i work in a job that deals with a lot of numbers on a daily basis. anyway, we've got a big dose of housing hopium for you. home prices saw their biggest yearly gain in six years. s&p case-shiller housing index rose 6% in november, which is, do the math, 5.5% year over std this before. you want to take advantage of low interest rates by refinancing your mortgage. you're approved by your bank, but then your appraisal doesn't come in high enough to give you the necessary equity to get the deal done, and i know we all think our homes are worth more than they probably realistically are. but is the appraisal system broken post dodd/frank and other new rules? let's bring in john brennan and melissa cohen, president of the manhattan mortgage company. john, you yourself in articles i've read have noted how complaints are skyrocketing and

many appraisers are getting low or even failing grades now. why is this happening? >> well, there's probably a number of reasons. the volume of loan activity has for residential appraisals and residential mortgage appraisals specifically, you have got more of the seasoned appraisals and appraisers and experienced appraisers doing other types of work, and you, therefore, you're getting some of the less experienced appraisers. a lot of the people in the business today came in when the market was red hot several years ago and had never really experienced a down market like this, didn't know how to deal with it. and so some of the things that we're trying to do sed kate them on how to deal with a market that was down and how to be able to look at properly providing opinions of value on homes in a declining market. >> let be frank, you know, or let's be dodd/frank, john. the reality is that a lot of appraisers were criticized for overappraising homes during the boom. they were in the pockets of the

realtors. i'm sure there were lawsuits out there, right? do you feel like there's some appraisers now maybe purposefully lowballing or sandbagging to avoid any problem for them down the road? >> it's unlikely. i mean, you know, the appraisers, like you just pointed out, the appraisers tend to get the blame on both hand. while the market is hot they overappraise it and when the market is cold they are not recognizing what the true value, is whatever that is, of the property should be, so the appraisers aren't intentionally being conservative because that would be doing an appraisal that is likely in violation of the uniform standards of professional appraisal practice. their job is to try to mere orthomarket and be able to determine what the value should be based on typical buyers and sellers in the marketplace. >> but, of course, we all know, those of us who have opinion in the system, brian has, i have, doesn't always work. melissa, what do you think is the problem, and how do we fix it? >> i think the problem is that the appraisal system is totally

broken. you know, hvcc, we had to go through appraisal management companies who charge a fee, try and find appraisers who will work for less money who are generally less experienced, who don't necessarily know the area that they are appraising. i mean, someone coming into new york from three hours away and, you know, tries to appraise an apartment on 72nd street, they don't know the difference really between park avenue and second avenue, so, that you know, we have people that don't know what they are doing. it's very hard to actually dispute an appraisal, even if you have factual data showing that the appraisal sin correct. 99% of the time the appraiser stands behind what they stay, even if they are wrong and you can prove to them that they are wrong, and it -- it causes people to have to go maybe to another bank to try to get another appraiser who will actually understand the marketplace. it's also increased the cost of appraisals tremendously, and they are also taking much more time because once the appraisal is completed, it has to go back

to the company and go through quality control. >> so back to the original question, melissa, what do we do about it? how do we fix this problem? >> i think they need to revise hvcc. real estate brokers meet the appraisers and literally still the only contact that the appraiser has in the mortgage process, so saying that we taking the brokers out of appraisers' pockets is really wrong because, you know, a good broker will provide good comps but an appraiser may choose just to ignore it. we may need to loosen the rules up and make, you know, more transparent as to who you're dealing with and making sure that you're getting a credible appraisal. >> and an avenue for better complaints. we'll have this discussion again, guys, because i guarantee every one in our audience has dealt with this in the past recently. melissa and john, thank you very much. appreciate both of your times. >> thank you. >> are some of baseball's biggest stars still doping? a new report says they may be, and these are a-list -- your

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okay. what you're looking at right now is the dow industrials. up about half a percent, but what we're really looking at, guys, is a particular number, and that is 14,000. as you can see, we're up by 65 points right now, and we're only a stone's throw away. 1.5% away from cracking the

14,000 mark, a level we've not seen since october 17th, 2007, way back in the heady days of 2007. guys? >> that's when a-rod was hitting, and another day and another ugly headline for sports. the "miami new times" reporting some of baseball's biggest names may still be using performance enhancing drugs or have used in the last few years. brian schactman is here with more. the biggest name on this list, perhaps the biggest name in baseball. >> he's made more money than anyone in the history of baseball, alex rodriguez, and i just want to point out, his attorneys and reps deny any wrongdoing here, and they deny any connection, but anthony bosh, according to the "miami new times" has provided hdh to a-rod and melky cabrera who was busted this year by still signed a $60 million contract with texas, nelson cruz, allegations unconfirm, important enough that this story was leaked over the weekend to espn and the maj